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csl-bot
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Mar 6, 2018
Awesome! You just created a pull request to the Citation Styles Language styles repository. One of our human volunteers will try to get in touch soon (usually within a week). In the meantime, I will run some automated checks. You should be notified of the results in a few minutes. If you haven't done so yet, please make sure your style validates and follows all our other Style Requirements. To update this pull request, visit the "Files changed" tab above, and click on the pencil icon (see below) in the top-right corner of your style to start editing. If you have any questions, please leave a comment and we'll get back to you. While we usually respond in English, feel free to write in whatever language you're most comfortable. |
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Mar 6, 2018
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So I've looked at this a bit now and while it's definitely very impressive,
For one, CSL was built on the idea that some constellations or variables do not exist. It does not make any sense to me, for example, for an item to have a short title or container title and not have a title/container title. I suspect the style could (and imo should) be massively simplified. Apart from maintenance and principled concerns about code efficiency, there are also very real performance concerns. We have no idea how something this large & complex will perform across processors and in large documents.
These are just initial thoughts. I'd like to hear from @rmzelle and I'm certainly open to be convinced, but currently I'm skeptical. |
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Dear Sebastian, I understand your concerns. The style is big and the code goes to (sometimes seemingly absurd) lengths to get everything right and to accommodate for every conceivable combination of types and fields/variables. As you guessed, this is due mostly to the fact that I derived it from my "complete" template style referenz-geisteswissenschaften-heilmann whose sole purpose is exactly that: to support every type and every field of the CSL 1.0.1 specification. If you want this done "right", especially for references of the German humanities sort, then there are a lot of possibilities to consider. (I could send you my "proof" sheets showing different cases of broadcasts, all "real life" examples). As you said yourself, big styles like CMoS are complicated almost by necessity. Still, I absolutely get your point and I think I can "shave off" a lot of code for this particular journal style (I could throw out many types). Performance issues are very important. I somewhat disagree with your first point, though: I find it quite easy to adapt the "complete" reference style to different needs and I think the modular structure helps a lot. Anyways: I will look at the code in the coming days (start of the semester here) and see want I can cut out and simplify. You can then consider it again. Thank you for your diligence! |
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Before I submit a new version of the style... I have revised the code, removed support for types unlikely to be used in the journal ("bill", "legal_case" and "legislation"), removed support for 'weird' constellations (such as entries with short-title but no title etc.) and simplified some macros. The code is now (not counting the lengthy comment at the beginning) 2000 lines long. The general structure of the code remains unchanged. Will you review a style of this size? I could probably cut some more but then would have to compromise support for complicated cases like CSL type "song" (used by Zotero for both audio recordings and podcasts), "motion_picture" (used by Zotero for both video recording and film) or "map" and "personal_communication" (many different scenarios). |
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3000+ lines does seem a little excessive. (I only briefly looked at the style, and didn't take the time to figure out how well it's structured; hard to judge from a quick glance, which I guess is partially @adam3smith's point)
Especially for journal styles, that seems like overkill. And modeling styles after CSL, instead of directly after the demands of the journal, also seems like it unnecessarily complicates matters. (in the natural sciences, a CSL style that correctly formats journal articles, books, and chapters often covers 90%+ of all references, and there are real costs in complexity in trying to cover every corner case) |
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Yes, that's a good point that I'd want to discuss before deciding on whether I´d want to review 2000 lines of code. The Chicago Manual guide that we take somewhere around1,500 lines to implement has something like 100 pages dedicated to references, covering more then 200 different scenarios. For something like that I think a complex style would be OK, even if it´s a lot less widely used as the Manual. But zfm's styleguide basically covers 6 or 7 different item types on 4 pages (which makes sense for a journal; I'm not saying it should be more complicated), so I'm wondering about Verhältnismäßigkeit. |
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Okay, so I reduced the code to about 800 lines. It now only (explicitly) supports the types/cases mentioned in the journal's style guide. Everything else can fail catastrophically. EDIT: Grammar. |
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May 8, 2018
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Jun 13, 2018
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adam3smith
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Jul 8, 2018
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tillheilmann
closed this
Oct 28, 2018
tillheilmann
reopened this
Oct 28, 2018
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Oct 28, 2018
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sorry for letting this sit -- will review asap |
adam3smith
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Oct 31, 2018
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Dec 26, 2018
This issue hasn't seen any activity in the past 30 days. It will be automatically closed if no further activity occurs in the next two weeks. |
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sorry, this is may bad and should have been reviewed a while ago. reopening |
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Jan 10, 2019
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Okay, do I have to do anything? |
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My apologies for letting this sit so long. I'm fine with the style as is -- I'm still not convinced checking for short-titles in the absence of regular titles makes a lot of sense, but this adds about 20 lines here that aren't worth spending much time arguing, so let's keep them in. I think the style's et al. approach is odd (u.a. means "und andere" after all, and if an item has two authors and you're just leaving one out that's ... ungrammatical, but I agree that's the best reading of the ZfM guidelines. Thanks for doing this and apologies, again, for the completely unreasonable time this has been waiting for review. |
tillheilmann commentedMar 6, 2018
Complete rewrite of style using reference CSL template (http://www.tillheilmann.info/code/referenz-geisteswissenschaften-heilmann.csl). It now adheres more closely to journal's style guide, supports (almost) all CSL types and fields and has better documentation.